Rick Kitagawa and Lisa Lambert: Creating trust in organizations

Daniel (00:02): What is an essential ingredient in leadership effectiveness. What do the top leaders around the world all share? Some might argue emotional intelligence. When you break emotional intelligence down, there's two parts, the internal, right. What's going on with me inside my heart, my mind, my soul. Is there internal awareness of what is driving me to do what I do today? Am I a master of my emotions or are my emotions the master of me? The second part of emotional intelligence is looking beyond ourselves, looking outside to our relationships and being aware of what's happening in the context, outside our heads. When it comes to relationships. I think the foundation of that, I actually know the foundation of that is trust, but how do you build trust? There is an absolutely great quote by Lance Secretan and he says, "Authenticity is the alignment of head, mouth, heart, and feet - thinking, saying, feeling, and doing the same thing - consistently. This builds trust, and followers love leaders they can trust."

Daniel (01:22): And that's true. Followers do love a leader they can trust and that trust comes with consistency from what you think will happen, what you say will happen and what you make happen. And lucky for us, my friends, Rick Kitagawa and Lisa Lambert are here to talk about trust. They founded Spotlight Trust and we'll get all into that. Once we, of course, we talk about what hip hop group they would form, if they formed a hip hop group, but then we'll get into the important part of our episode, revolving around trust. Hey, it's Daniel and welcome to the better leaders, better schools podcast, show for Ruckus Makers. Those out of the box leaders making change happen in education. We'll be right back after these messages from our show's sponsors. Learn how to successfully navigate change, shape your school's success and lead your teams with Harvard's certificate in school management and leadership. Get world-class Harvard faculty research, specifically adapted for pre-K through 12 schools. Experienced self-paced online PD that fits your schedule applied today@t http://hgse.me/leader. That's http://hgse.me/leader

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Daniel (03:36): Hey there, Ruckus Makers. We are joined today by a dynamic duo. They used to go by the name of Lick, but that didn't work. We can get into reasons why they changed it to RESA, but my friends, Rick and Lisa are here today. I'm so excited that you're here and you all are the founders of Spotlight Trust. And we'll get into that. Your work is so important and I value your friendships and the contributions you make into the world. So just thanks for joining me today. Thanks.

Rick/Lisa (04:08): Thank you so much for having us, Danny. It's a pleasure to be here. Pleasure to and excited to get to chat with you today,

Daniel (04:14): For sure. So Lick, to Risa, tells us the story real quick there, and then we'll, we'll get to the meat of the conversation.

Rick/Lisa (04:23): I don't think we ever wanted to go by lick, but we were trying to find a way that we could communicate that there's two of us in a lot of the conversation that we do with leaders and organizations around building trust and within themselves as leaders or in their community or at scale. We felt that Lick sort of wasn't as professional as we might want it to be or trust enabling. We decided to go with RISA the combination of Rick and Lisa

Daniel (04:56): Was that LIsa's idea too, since she's a more of the strategic minded one?

Lisa (05:00): I've always wanted to be a rapper.

Daniel (05:03): Okay. See, this is why we ask the questions.

Rick/Lisa (05:07): I'm not very good at it at all. The one cool thing though, is that my initials are LL, so I could be LL cool. Maybe not cool, but so this is kind of, I feel like the closest I get to having a rapper name is, RISA as part of this trust duo.

Daniel (05:21): Yeah. I just watched the Beastie Boys documentary. It's on Apple TV, plus I don't know if you're a subscriber, they don't promote the show or sponsor yet, growth mindset. Right. But they were there talking about how they came up with their names and sort of like their whole, how they showed up their presence, uniforms and that kind of stuff. So I don't want to talk hip hop in a fictional rap group that you guys don't have, but if you had a uniform, Rick knows, like I get off on these tangents, we've talked about uniforms before. What kind of uniform would you wear in the Risa group?

Rick/Lisa (05:54): An interesting, I guess, I don't want to say set up?

Rick/Lisa (05:58): Interesting note is that both of us really like teal or kind of like the blue, green shade of things. Like I am a deep, deep into the seafoam, aqua, teal, turquoise thing where I would say I actually have a hoodie that I bought multiple copies of and I used to run a screen printing company. So I printed the same hoodie. So it's one of those things that once one hoodie wears out, I have another one and it's the exact same hoodie. And if it was up to me, I think that would be our uniform. But we actually haven't clearly discussed this. I'm interested to hear what Lisa has to say. I'm in for teal. I have a similar colored teal hoodie actually. And there's sometimes when we end up in our virtual office, which is Zoom, because we live in two different countries and we end up both wearing our hoodies. So I'm down with teal, a fun fact about Rick and I. We actually have the same turquoise curtains, which is just by coincidence. Rick is down in Pasadena, California, I'm in North Vancouver, Canada, and independently. We've ordered the same curtain. So I think it's just a sign of some verse energy in space. I'm not suggesting we wear the curtains as uniforms. That would be kind of a little weird, but I'd be down with a teal hoodie, maybe a cap or toque. It's getting cold here.

Daniel (07:10): All I'll say is it, everybody thinks it's weird until it's not weird anymore. So the curtains are probably a good idea. In the tangent, as a former English major, I can make a connection to anything. It's the power of BS, right. But honestly like honestly, the idea of uniforms or wearing curtains or whatever, I think it comes back to belonging. Right. It's saying this is our space and so since you've foundedSpotlight Trust, let's riff a little bit about the importance of belonging, especially in these times, right?

Rick/Lisa (07:45): I guess something we were noticing, are we needing to maybe do a little bit more work to get that sense of belonging than before, because a lot of it's trying to do that over a distance. I think we can come down to all our sense of kind of being together. That's about belonging. That's about relationships, it's relational and the glue lubricant and accelerant, all relationships are trust. So trying to build that trust and build that connection right now, as for navigating a number of different crises and we're trying to do so at a distance, I think is a work that as leaders, we all need to be extra mindful of and looking at what are our patterns of interaction are and how we're supporting one another and taking care of each other, to give each other a sense of, of belonging, whether we're all wearing the same curtains or not.

Daniel (08:31): I'm wondering too and I don't know if I'll pass the mic to Rick and Lisa, if you want to add to it as well. But when we're talking about belonging, is there an experience from your past where you felt just so connected to a community? Can you describe a bit about the signals they were putting out or the norms or the behaviors, like what created that sense of belonging for you?

Rick (08:57): Yeah, thanks Danny, that's a great question. I think it's the question that we actually dig into a lot with some of the workshops we've done with a lot of different individuals and different organizations. And for me personally, I really feel a lot of belonging around the akimbo coach community. This is how we're fortunate to know you as coaches of the Alt MBA program and Kimbo workshops in a more broad sense. But really I think the signals that really help is just calling stuff in about how really we encourage and value people for their own uniqueness and individuality. And it's not necessarily about saying, Oh, we all wear curtains or we all don't wear curtains, it's about saying, if you want to wear curtains, you go wear curtains and we love you for that. And I think that was really impactful for me personally, when I joined the coach committee that I was dealing with a lot of imposter syndrome, how I deserve to be here?

Rick (10:02): There's all these other people who I really look up to. And it was them saying, we pick you to be you, like, we want you to show up and talk about monsters and make weird dad jokes and dress up in weird costumes. And that's what I bring to the coach community. And that's kind of just my style and the fact that I would try that. And then people were like, yes, we love that. Keep doing it. I think that really cemented that feeling of belonging for me, that I really could show up because I think belonging is really being able to show up as yourself and not be penalized or judged negatively for that. And I think as a leader, when you're, when you are facilitating your own organizations, I think being able to celebrate people's individual strengths and really call that in and highlight that and not focus on people's individual flaws. I think that really helps cement that feeling that, Oh, I really can be myself and my uniqueness or my weirdness. However, you see that can really shine.

Daniel (11:14): I appreciate that and Lisa with what Rick said there about curtains or no curtains let's talk to the Ruckus Maker, Who's listening in and they're leading those schools and things already feel a bit off, right? Like the control or the normalcy and the routines of what we used to think of school is all different now. I'm sure leaders are struggling with just a sense of making sure who they hired are their people, the staff are doing the right things, that kids are getting an excellent education, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you as a leader approach curtains or not and invite that individuality to the team.

Lisa (11:58): That's a really great question, Danny. I mean, I've seen some leaders doing some remarkable things right now, but I think there's a lot of uncertainties you're saying happening around the world. And to be able to just name that and call that in, I think being a leader isn't about having all the right answers. And I think right now is such a great time to invite people in to kind of co-create what that future is. What are things going to look like when it's a time and certain another way to look at that is that there's just so much possibility as well. Possibility we haven't had a chance to go and explore and discover just yet. And this is a time to look into trusting your people, kids too, in this place and tapping into their different perspectives, their different experiences, to get a better understanding, a better viewpoint of what's going on right now. And being able to just explore and discover and figure out what that way forward is. We're not going back right now and what we've done in the past. What we tried to get us here isn't necessarily going to move us, move us forward. So I think it's a time for leaders to just own that space, but use it as an invitation to bring everyone forward together. And as we're saying,uto really harness and harvest the strengths, the unique strengths that everyone is bringing to the table.

Daniel (13:10): Gotcha. So to reflect back to you, Lisa, I want to make sure I got it right, but in some sense to make sure you're not letting fear dictate what's going on there seeing all the challenges and the obstacles, but you said the potential, the opportunities to experiment. I've heard from a lot of leaders that I support, right? Like we've been able to stretch and grow in ways that never would have been possible if we weren't going through this tough time. And we want to keep some of that when we go back to a more traditional school setting is that getting it right?

Lisa (13:44): I love that you're highlighting it there. I love how you've named one of the challenges that I think is that fear that's really real. It can be really, really scary. I think there's always a sense of uncomfort or discomfort in the uncertainty. So I think being able to name that, and I'd love you to talk to it kind of is that way for kind of bringing that sense of a possibility or experimentation with us. A neat thing about these uncertain times is this is really the spotlight that reveals our leadership. It's a lot easier to be a leader when there's a guarantee what the path is, here's where we're going, but right now it's not a guarantee in it. So this is really where we do leadership. And I think bringing that sense forward as well. So we're not just always defaulting to the status quo, but we're always kind of exploring a little bit and playing around and seeing what, what better can look like or what more belonging can look like or how we can work together to elevate one another, a little bit more, whether it's a time of crisis or not is a really beautiful thing and a really constructive thing to bring forward with us.

Daniel (14:42): So RESA, I have a dashboard, right? And on the dashboard, I have things that matter, The leaders that I'm honored serve the number of leaders I work with in the community one-on-one. There's sponsors and then the platform section, I talk about email, subscribers, downloads, and kind of maybe vanity metrics. I'm wondering if they don't matter that much. I measure how productive I am in terms of execution toward my most important goals, since it's a business too, I look at revenue schools, obviously they're going to look at attendance. They're going to look at test scores and student achievement, discipline data. Those are pretty common, they matter, I don't know how much though, in the connection I'm going to make here is that your website talks about how trust is the most important asset you need to build your organization, right? And your organization, Spotlight Trust is a practical, measurable, and comprehensive approach that can help you develop it in future proof, your organization. So some of the fun things I'm thinking about would be gifts I send friends or smiles that I'm able to elicit because of maybe how I show up trust. You talk about how trust is measurable, how do we measure it though because I can't get my head around that and you have an approach

Rick/Lisa (16:09): We can measure trust. I think there's a number of ways, but I want to shift to, I think what's more interesting. And what you're starting to get at here is I think sometimes it's more useful to measure the benefits of trust or the work that we're putting in to build that trust. So you're talking about the gifts that you send. Those are relationships that you're building is care that you're showing in those ways. I think when we're looking at what's most useful for us, it can be that higher productivity is now put to you. That's a benefit that we look at and I think some of the questions that we can ask ourselves around that too. I'm curious around your metrics that you have, what questions are behind those? Is it things like, did I do my best to find meaning today or did I do my best to be fully engaged today or do I do my best to build positive relationships today and then looking at what metrics would help you into finding that and how you're showing up as the trusted leader?

Daniel (17:03): I mean, if I'm hearing right too, it's on measuring some of the process and the inputs, which leads to the trusting relationships, which leads to other things that you can measure like productivity or in my sense there's a number of leaders in the Mastermind that have worked with me for over two years. Right. That's not because I've locked them up in the basement and they can only log onto the computer when they joined the Mastermind. That would be terrible, but it's because we have a trusting relationship and they're getting value. Rick, I just want to invite you into the conversation and see if you have anything to add regarding measuring trust.

Rick (17:42): Yeah. I think Lisa covered most of it. I mean, it's really about there are metrics in how we can measure trust, but I think it's much more beneficial to really look at the questions behind the questions. Right. If you're asking, how can we measure trust? It's kind of like, why do you need to measure trust? And I think part of that is really that you're looking at well, how can I improve the areas that trust would help me improve? Right. Whether that's a relationship, whether that's engagement, whether that's for student's attendance, It's behavioral issues, it's grades, it's test scores, right? All of these metrics that while I personally don't find super helpful, whether it was when I was a student or also in my past life as a university educator, I get that also. That is what pays the bills, right. That's how you keep them credited. That's how you keep funding rolling in right.

Rick (18:43): It's test scores and things like that. But I think it's really what our, just broadly, As an organization, it's just, what are you trying to do? And really by looking at that, I think you can kind of suss out the benefits of how building trust would serve you. And then that will eliminate maybe areas in very practical ways that you can work to improve. So whether you're like, Oh, okay. Oh wow. If I communicated more clearly, that would really help students or that would help the PTA get onboard with this new initiative that I'm rolling out and then you can start saying, okay, well then I need to work on my communication. Right. So I think,uwhat Lisa was getting at, and what I want to highlight is really just kind of asking the questions behind the questions of like, what do you really want and that'll probably, illuminate what you need to be working on at a very practical, measurable level.

Daniel (19:43): Yeah. It's like continuing to ask why, so you dig deeper until you get to that root and then design from there to create the experience you're looking for. Lisa, I'm curious, are there any, not so obvious ways that leaders can build trust?

Lisa (20:01): That's a juicy, juicy question. Maybe what we'll do is I'll ask a question that Rick and I get, sometimes we get asked, how do you teach trust? Or how do you build trust because I think a lot of times it can feel like an intangible or something you can't quite put your finger on. And that was a lot of the work that Rick and I did was trying to find trust and then define, how can you build it? What are the skills or the competencies that go around that? And with that kind of shed light to a framework that we developed called the five facets of trust. So clarity, credibility, consistency, caring, and connection. You kind of look at each of those facets as being kind of our own pocket skills or competencies that we can work on and a lot of this is really practical and for different folks, different organizations they might need to work on one of those areas over another.

Lisa (20:44): So maybe it's what Rick was saying being clear earlier. So trying to get a little bit more clear I think one that in such a busy world that we can easily forget is that people want to know how much you care first before they're more likely to follow you or to be enrolled in your ideas so showing that caring comes into it. I think another element of this too, Rick and I, we talk about building trust in 3d. So building trust in yourself as the foundation, then trust another and then trust at scale is a little bit different as well. So kind of looking into being these facets, these five facets in three dimensions and I think there's some different areas there that can emerge. I think depending on the person or the culture or the context that might be, there might be something in there that's a little bit surprising. Rick, I'm curious about your thoughts.

Rick (21:27): Yeah. I think one thing that I also wanted to highlight through that framework is that we find that generally your trust level, and it is context specific, but your trust level is basically whatever or which of those five facets you're actually weakest from. So it's sort of like you could have, you could be really credible. You could have been really consistent with your actions, but like, if you look like you don't care at all, that's what people measure you by And then we see this time and time again that people will usually be really high on certain one or two of the facets usually. But then usually there's one that they're really poor at and that generally tends to be the one that is the limiting factor in terms of how much trust can be built.

Daniel (22:13): I forget this specific quote by James Clear and Atomic Habits, but the idea had to do with productivity. It's not about the time and the challenges and all this kind of stuff, but your productivity sort of like falls to the level of your systems. So if there's these different components of trust and you are stellar on four out of the five, but the fifth one you're really weak. That's what people remember. I guess that's because that's that's hard experience or wherever you're weakest just that tastes in people's mouths. You can offer somebody some chocolate, right. But then if you slap them after you give them the chocolate, they're going to remember the slap. They're not going to remember that delicious Belgian chocolate that you gave them.

Rick/Lisa (22:59): That's just what I please don't slap me. I think that brings up a really great point though, that trust is built up over time, which is actually one of its features. I think something that makes it so powerful but you can't just go and flip on a light switch when you need trust to be there and kind of trust engaged. It doesn't work that way. The way that we like to think about is trust is a lot more like a plant and whether that's a new relationship and you're just nurturing and tending to a seedling or where it's a perennial and it still needs to be cared for and tended to as well. So it's something that you've got to show up and be consistent in those impressions that you're leaving people with and always giving them that taste of chocolate time and time again,

Daniel (23:39): Loving this conversation, so thank you for being here. We'll be back with Spotlight Trust, the founders in a second but right now we're going to pause for a message from our sponsors. Learn how to successfully navigate change, shape your school's success and empower your teams with Harvard certificates in school management and leadership programs, and get online professional development that fits your schedule. We're now enrolling for February and June, 2021 courses include leading change leading schools and leading people applied today@hgse.me /leader. That's HGSe.me /leader. Ruckus Maker, I want to tell you about a remote blended learning tool. Your school needs right now, SMART learning suite. Online as a teacher, you can create store and deliver lessons from anywhere, no SMART board required, and your students can access and engage with your content from any web browser on any device, no matter what your classroom looks like right now, SMART learning suite online offers many options for flexible learning, engaging students via collaborative workspaces in game based activities, SMART learning suite online integrates with tools like Google classroom and Microsoft teams making it an easy to use way to create engaging content and connect with students.

Daniel (25:09): Learn more and get started@smarttech.com / learning suite. That's SMART tech.com / learning suite

Daniel (25:21): Today's show is brought to you by Organized Binder. Organized binder develops the skills and habits. All students need success. During these uncertain times of distance learning and hybrid education settings, organized binder, equips educators with a resource to provide stable and consistent learning routines so that all students have an opportunity to succeed, whether at home or in the classroom, learn more@organizedbinder.com. Alright, and we're back with Risa, the founders of Spotlight Trust. I'm really enjoying this conversation before we get into more trust, I'm curious, Rick, you mentioned the dad jokes. Do you have a vault of those that you can bring up on command? Just curious.

Rick/Lisa (26:10): No, I knew you were going to ask me that as soon as I said it and I was like I actually, I don't, to be honest, I just really enjoy puns as we've talked, Danny I'm actually a competitive skeeball player and the league Brewsky ball is very much about puns and I really enjoyed them, but to be honest, I actually just source a lot of my dad jokes from the internet when I need to. Especially at a distance I'm able to kind of like find stuff to drop into Slack channels through sending emails. So I will say I have not. I'm more of a enthusiast than a gadget generator, unfortunately, maybe just because I don't have kids.

Daniel (26:56): I don't know. Maybe one just got queued up for you. Let's see how you deliver.

Rick/Lisa (27:03): Okay, cool. So why couldn't the bicycle stand up by itself? I don't know why. Oh, it was cute and tiring. Oh, don't bump. That's a great one. Thanks Danny.

Daniel (27:18): Hey, thank you, Rick. Appreciate you showing up and bringing it. Something that I wanted to ask. So we were talking a bit about in terms of Charleston, like not so obvious ways of building it. I wonder with all the workshops or the coaching in the different programs you've put together, have you seen any leaders believe that they were building trust but they actually weren't? Like they were so out of tune, they're like, Oh, this is totally doing it and it just wasn't landing.

Rick (27:50): Yeah, that's a great question, Danny. I think what we've seen is that a lot of people don't have the practice necessarily in expressing caring that Lisa talked about which is just so important. That's one of the, I would say the facets that sort of is hardest to do because you can't fake caring, but it also really is impactful. I think a lot of people will read a lot of leadership books and they will say things that might sound nice or if it was typed out, you're like, Oh yeah, that makes sense but the things like their intonation, their body language, you can tell they're inauthentic and that actually can be a lot more damaging. We've seen that in a lot of different organizations that we've helped leaders that we've talked to and sometimes they're like, Oh yeah, like I'm trying to show I care.

Rick (28:46): And so I've been told to check in with people all the time, but the thing that people don't get is that we have this framework that we've talked about a little bit on our podcast of the difference between checking in and checking up on people, because checking in is a token of actual curiosity and care for the other person. And checking up is when you need a product like the status of how a product is shipped or where something is in the pipeline. A lot of times people will pair that together. You'll send that email, just like, Hey, just checking in, by the way, is the report done yet? Right. And what that does is actually devalues the care because you're not actually checking in, you're just checking up on the report that's due. And so really we really encourage leaders to separate the two and the checkups are fine and they're needed to make sure that projects are moving.

Rick (29:42): Forward. However, you need to separate those two and make sure that you make dedicated time to actually check in with your team to see how they're doing. And then there's other correspondence, which is checking up on where, how deadlines are coming along.

Daniel (29:57): Well, it's like the silly scenario I invented earlier in the show where you give a piece of chocolate and slap, right. So what I'm hearing you say is to separate those two things. There's aspects of the job that have the assessment's been graded and put into our system. Right. And then there's, Hey, how are you? How's your mom, that might be sick or Oh, you're getting a new puppy. Like tell me about that and separate those two things. That's good. Is there anything else? Like Lisa, I'll go to you. Anything else that you've seen in terms of leaders doing, or maybe another pitfall that leaders should have?

Lisa (30:37): I think a really big one is around feedback and we see this a lot and it's, I mean, improving feedback, maybe a bit counter intuitive, how people receive feedback. Those skills are one of the fastest ways to transform culture. But I think right now, especially when we're at a distance, a lot of people are really scared of conflict. I think conflict is a bad thing and they're nervous about giving feedback and how they might make the other person feel, but even how they're going to feel or their discomfort in going into that and feedback is so important. We receive feedback all the time. It's how we navigate the world around us but shying away from those conversations or not being direct with them can make things a heck of a lot worse and can leave things to fester. I think right now at a time when we're remote, we need feedback more than ever.

Lisa (31:21): So we can have that connection. We can have that sense of belonging. I think there's a lot of leaders that are maybe centering around a norm of politeness that's getting in the way from having these really important conversations around a shared purpose around where we're seeking to go together. So I would really encourage the leaders. It's not about being polite, it's about being kind, and that kind comes in being direct, being respectful,ubut sharing that feedback with others and engaging in those conversations and building that kind of pathway forward together, and also being really gracious and receiving feedback. I think as leaders, we don't have all the answers. That's not the point of being a leader with that, but being open and modeling what really good, what it looks like to receive feedback well and being open to it and not getting defensive about that,ushows to other people that, Hey, it's okay to give feedback.

Lisa (32:11): This is what we do around here. And I think one too, that we see, especially leaders seem to have a hard time with this. A lot of them are receiving positive feedback. There's a lot of readers or leaders that we've worked with and get a little bit embarrassed or a little bit shy or a little bit bashful around receiving positive feedback and they tend to deflect it or put it on to other people. I think when you do that and you're uncomfortable in receiving positive feedback, you're telegraphing that it's not okay to give positive.

Rick/Lisa (32:40): Feedback. This is not kind of what our norm and our way is here. So if leaders can work on also being really gracious on receiving positive feedback well, and a lot of times that's just, thank you. Hey, you did a really great job. Thank you. It feels really good to hear that from you is a really great way to just kind of encourage that positive feedback culture with their teams as well.

Daniel (32:58): I so appreciate you sharing that. I learned that lesson a few years ago, because I was that leader. Somebody would say, Hey, you do this great. And I'd be all shucks and turn in red. I just felt very uncomfortable having that spotlight put on me, but I also, like you said, it says, okay, the positive feedback isn't welcome here. So that's a cultural problem. But the other thing too is I would rob that person from the opportunity to share that gift, people want to highlight what they admire about you or what they, what they see that you're doing that's special. If you can't receive that,you're robbing that from, from the person that experience. So appreciate you sharing that. Well, I want to talk about the Trusted Leader Lab. I know that's something that you've run and you'll be running in the future too. For the Ruckus Maker, who's listening today,what's the Trusted Leader Lab about, and of course we'll all have like the link,where people can enroll in all your information in the show notes. Tell us about the Trusted Leader Lab.

Rick/Lisa (34:01): Thanks Danny. Yeah, the Trusted Leader Lab is really our kind of flagship training curriculum that we do. It's a lot of peer based discussion. There's some lessons or some kind of projects to work through some of those lessons with your peers and it is we're launching the next cohort. Probably we haven't finalized the dates, but it's probably looking like early February, 2021. It really does a deep dive into all five facets in terms of the different practical skills that are in each one and we also look at that through the three different dimensions of building trust with yourself, with others and at scale. It's sort of a big think of it as a big matrices of five facets on one assays and three dimensions on the other and we kind of go through that and work through that as a big collective team to help you and go board trust with yourself, with others and those that you seek to serve.

Daniel (35:03): Yeah, brilliant. And like I said, we'll have that linked up in the show notes and I highly encouraged all the Ruckus Makers who are listening to check out the Trusted Leader Lab. And Lisa, you mentioned that you are working on a new book. So tell us a bit about that.

Rick/Lisa (35:21): Yeah, we've got it in the works with this and looking at coming out in early 2021, we've been taking some of our insights, our conversations, and putting into a short fund book that gets into the essence of trusts. I would call it the Future is Trust and really kind of being that, that guide of what the way forward is not trust really is foundational to all that we do work isn't transactional, it is relational and that all comes down to trust. Getting into a few solid practical takeaways that readers can bring with them and almost look at as a manifesto for a trust center leader.

Daniel (35:57): Yeah, definitely excited to be picking that up. I know that it'll be coming out sometime early 20, 21, so day to be decided. So people are ready to engage with Spotlight Trust. Now you have the websites, Spotlight Trust.com. Again, all this linked up in the show notes, your podcasts in trust will be linked up as well and then you have a resource on your website that people can download for free calling, building trust at scale, the practical playbook. So what can people find inside that resource?

Rick (36:29): I think the practical playbook is really a kind of, I don't want to say a shallow, but comparatively to the trusted leader lab program, it's a kind of a taster of ways that leaders can take actionable steps into building trust at scale. I think organizations look at that as really the essence of their work because you need to be able to build trust, to gain enrollment, to be able to make the change that you are seeking to make. We really took some of the best high impact tips that we have, and we put it into a roughly 20 page PDF that you can download just by going to our website and picking that up. I think it's a really impactful way for leaders to just start out and kind of try us on for size and see if the stuff that we've seen the research support works for you and your context. Hopefully that makes the impactful change in your organization.

Daniel (37:34): Yeah. There's nothing wrong with a starter guide. I gave away a resource about building Masterminds. The Mastermind toolkit, and I don't know, 10 pages who cares. I mean, the point is it gives you an overview. It gives you enough that if you're creative and you execute on ideas, you can do it. But then I have a book coming out in summer, probably July, 2021 on the Mastermind. That's 67,000 words, at least the first draft. Right. So who knows what I'll be at the end, but the point is that there's always, you can go in deeper levels. So all that to say, go to the website in download, building trust at scale, the practical playbook. All right now, to the two questions I ask all my guests, Lisa, we'll start with you. If you could put a message on all marquees around the world, just for a day, what would your marquee say?

Lisa (38:25): I think it would be an invitation to be present. I think there's so much time where we're anxious about the past or worried about the future and we forget about being here and being present and being with people and that's really how connection happens is by bringing your whole selves and being in that moment. I think in this time, especially be present. Rick, how about you?

Rick (38:47): I think I would say, be kind and embrace the nuance because I think that so much of the problems in the world today is the fact that we constantly seek simple answers to complex problems. A lot of the time we really need to do the work, to sit with the nuance, to hear the full story, to consider both sides of, or all sides. It's not just binary, I'm looking deep into the nuance of the context and the situation and am willing to embrace those differences and possibilities, and also to be flexible in how we solve problems, because when we try to solve them. It's the whole adage about when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail, but it just kind of looks like looking at well, what if we took the hammer apart? How could we use a hammer in new ways? How could we make new tools? How could we have a full toolbox and not just keep trying to assume everybody is even in a specific group is the same because they're not. I think that nuance is something that is vastly ignored in society today.

Daniel (40:03): All right. Well, Rick, we'll stick with you and then and with Lisa, but you're building a school from the ground up, you're not limited by any resources. Your only limitation is your imagination. So Rick, what would be your top priority building your dream school?

Rick (40:18): For me, I think it would be a focus on allowing students to choose their own path because I think whether that's how they learn or what they're learning, I think without that interest, it's really difficult to teach. I've seen that as an educator myself I know there's a lot of ways that you can, you can enroll students in what you are teaching because a lot of times you don't always have a choice, but I think when you find students who are passionate and interested, that's when you get the students to are showing up and collaborative and generous and interested and engaged. The more freedom we could give those students to be able to find that for themselves and then pursue that deeply. I think the more engaged, successful, better thinkers we would have as adults,

Daniel (41:15): Same question to you, Lisa, what would be that top priority building a dream

Lisa (41:20): Top part, makes space to explore and I've always just been in awe of science, science technology. I was a kid who would stare up at the night sky and just get lost in a trance for hours and hours. I fell in love with that world of science and discovery, not by reading a book, but by being out in the woods and going for a walk and being curious, or looking up at the stars at night time, or sorry, mom, tinkering around with the toaster and taking them apart, not being so great at putting things back together, again with other bits. Having that space to play and explore and to stumble into one and not, I think would be a top, top priority for me.

Daniel (41:57): Lisa, Rick, thank you so much for being a part of the better leaders, better schools, podcast. Of everything we talked about today. What's the one thing you want a Ruckus Maker to remember?

Rick (42:10): Build trust and extend trust, because that is the quickest and easiest way to hurt it and trust in yourself.

Daniel (42:19): Thanks for listening to the better leaders, better schools podcast for Ruckus Maker. If you have a question or would like to connect my email, Daniel @betterleadersbetterschools.com or hit me up on Twitter @alienearbud. If the better leaders better schools, podcast is helping you grow as a school leader, then please help us serve more Ruckus Makers like you. You can subscribe, leave an honest rating and review or share on social media with your biggest takeaway from the episode, extra credit for tagging me on Twitter @!alien earbud and using the #BLBS level up your leadership @betterleadersbetterschools.com and talk to you next time until then class dismissed.