Daniel Bauer and Ariel Curry: Behind The Scenes Look At Creating A Book

Daniel: Usually I'd take this intro and frame a story to get you excited about the episode, but today's episode is a bit different in the sense that one we're talking about Mastermind, Unlocking Talent Within Every School Leader, which is the name of my new book. It is published with Corwin and the AASA, the national superintendents association. I'm just thrilled with what we've created. It is by far the thing I'm most proud of to date, in terms of creating. This is a fun episode because I sit down with my senior editor, Ariel Curry, and we reveal what it's like to create a book. If you ever wanted to create a book, you'll hear some stuff there. We'll reveal what it's like working with an established book, publisher like Corwin and what it's like working with, Chief Ruckus Maker, Danny Bauer, that's me.

Daniel: It's a pretty cool episode because you get the behind the scenes access and really get to hear the story about the story. I'm super excited to bring this to you today and I hope you really enjoy listening to this very special episode. I'm going to straight up put it out there. I want this book in as many hands as possible. The first goal that I'm going for is to sell 2,500 books and to serve school leaders in that way. Please consider if you've gotten value from this podcast. If you've been listening since day one in September, 2015. How crazy we've been doing this for 6 year. We didn't line up the book release with the six years anniversary with the podcast, but it just kind of nicely worked out that way.

Daniel: If you've been listening since the beginning, if you're new to the show today, but you enjoy what you hear, please, please, please go out and grab yourself a copy. Better yet. Grab your buddy, your colleague, your partner, your team, your school, get them the book, Mastermind: Unlocking Talent Within Every School Leader and enjoy today's episode. We're going to have a couple quick announcements from our show sponsors, and then we'll get into the meat of the show. Keep making a ruckus. Learn how to successfully navigate change, shape your school success, and lead your teams with Harvard certificate in school management and leadership. Get world-class Harvard faculty research, specifically adapted for pre-K through 12 schools. Self-paced online professional development that fits your schedule. Apply now for our cohorts at betterleadersbetterschools.com/Harvard. That's betterleadersbetterschools.com/Harvard. Are you automatically tracking online student participation data during COVID innovative school leaders across the country have started tracking online student participation using Teach FX because it's one of the most powerful ways to improve student outcomes during COVID, especially for English learners and students of color. Learn more about Teach FX and get a special offer at teachereffects.com/BLBS. That's teachfx.com/BLBS.

Daniel: All students have an opportunity to succeed with Organized Binder who equips educators with a resource to provide stable and consistent learning. Whether that's in a distance hybrid or traditional educational setting, learn more at organizedbinder.com. Hey there, Ruckus Makers today's episode is really like a special, treats. It's a treat for me because I get to hang out with just a wonderful human being. It's a treat for you because you're going to get a behind the scenes, never heard before look at what it's like to, create a book. We're talking about the new book, Mastermind unknocking talent within every school leader. Joining me today is Ariel Curry and she's wonderful and at the time was the senior acquisitions editor at Corwin and reached out to me to do this project. She helps people in creating their own books too. We'll touch on that towards the end of the show. Ariel, welcome to the podcast.

Ariel: Thanks so much, Danny. So exciting to be here.

Daniel: Let's start at the beginning. I had an awesome year. I don't remember when you reached out, 2020 or 2019. Hopefully this didn't sound like bragging. Honestly, I don't care because I'm just confident in who I am, but I had a good year. Everybody that does books reached out to me that year. I didn't pitch to anybody and they all reached out, but you reached out and you wanted to do something different. You said, "Let's write a book about the Mastermind" and that put you at the top of the list right away. My question for you, why this book, why me?

Ariel: When I reached out to you, it was at the end of 2019 and I had just started managing Corwin's leadership list. For about six years before that I had managed the Teaching List. When my mentor retired, I was asked to take over the leadership list and I no idea what I was doing. The first thing I did was look for podcasts about education leadership because I knew nothing about it. Yours is one of the first that I found and I started listening so I could learn about education leadership and what ed leaders are looking for and what their challenges are and how I was going to start thinking about what books to put together to serve this audience. I realized very quickly that you were doing something very cool.

Ariel: It caught my attention. I remember looking at your website and just thinking, "Oh my gosh, this guy has such a unique voice and seems to be reaching this group of people and serving them in such an authentic way" and that really appealed to me. It did not take me long to figure out this is someone I want to work with. I want him to write a book. I was honestly just looking around your website and saw the Mastermind. I wanted to know what that is because you were pretty passionate about whatever this Mastermind thing is and here we are.

Daniel: Thank you for sharing that story. It was certainly an honor for you to reach out and, pitch that idea. It was an easy, yes. I think it was Derek Sivers who I learned this from. I love lot of his ideas. He said when it comes to opportunities, if it's not a "hell, yes, it should be a hell no." This was an emphatic, heck yeah. I definitely want to do that. A bit scary if I'm vulnerable because it's the way I serve and show up for sure. There's a money component involved and sometimes that makes things funny a little bit. I was really concerned because I didn't want to make it a 200 page sales letter, if I'm completely honest. I wondered how I would talk about my work and how I serve and how I put food on the table for my family and still make it super valuable and not slimey and saley. I think we figured it out, but I was worried about that in the beginning.

Ariel: We worked through that in the proposal and in the book itself too, because there were some times when I was a little worried that it might seem salesy, but I think in the end you did a great job and the book itself has so much value. I think is really true to who you are and all that you offer.

Daniel: Brilliant. Cool. The next question I have, what's it like working with this dude, Danny Bauer? I'm here, so just let it rip. Don't hold back.

Ariel: It's always full of surprises. I have to say that. Part of the publishing processes as an acquisitions editor, I had to pitch these books to the rest of my team and me coming in this brand new editor to those lists. One of my first books that I propose is this Mastermind book from this guy who is a totally different kind of voice than we're used to. Corbin's leadership lists, has been built on names like Michael Fullan and Andy Hargreaves and Dennis Shirley and Jumg Joe, and all of these academics and researchers. An incredible foundation and incredibly important with super high value, but obviously it's a very different voice than the leadership list Corwin was used to. Here I come in with something completely different.

Ariel: I think everyone in the room was like, all right, this is going to be the start of something new and exciting. They loved your voice. I showed them an intro video that you had on your website. ,I think everyone kind of fell in love and was like, "We're ready to try something different." Working with you was full of surprises. I really appreciate that. You challenged me a lot of the time because having been in the publishing world for a long time, you kind of get in a groove. You learn what works and you learn what doesn't work and sometimes that feels a little stale. I appreciated that you always had a really fresh approach. You would ask me things like, well, can we try this?

Ariel: Or can we try that? One of the first things that you asked was could we have the audio book come out close to the time of the book launch. I didn't know, I had to figure that out. U,ltimately we will have the audio book come out, not too long after the print book, which was new for Corwin. We had to figure out how to make that happen. You asked if we could do footnotes in the book and have like these little fun stories in the footnotes to get people's attention. Again, I was like, I don't know, but let's figure it out and make it happen. A lot of the process was I kind of put my faith in you and trusted your instincts to know what would work for your audience. My team put their faith in me and said, "All right, like, this is what we think is going to work. Let's try it." I think it's turned out beautifully. I'm super excited.

Daniel: Honestly, I love things I create, but this for sure is the thing I'm the most proud of today. It really is. I'll just leave it at that, but you can't be the chief Ruckus Maker if you're not challenging the status quo. That's just how I roll. It is fun hearing back from you now. Is there something specific that you remember or if you feel comfortable sharing if you remember a moment when I might have challenged the way of doing things? You did talk about footnotes, but anything else that come to mind?

Ariel: With Amazon, that was something you asked if we could do some of the same like sales techniques and marketing techniques that you used with your first book, which was self published and that was a good challenge for me because I had to find out the answer and I learned something new about publishing. A traditional publishers relationship with Amazon is we can't make everything happen in the way that we want it to. We have less control over Amazon. Amazon wants authors to work directly with them and not go through a publisher. They allow self-publishing authors to do things that they don't allow publishers to do and that's just the reality of the business and part of how Amazon gets their market share, which is valid. I think that's just one example. I'm sorry. I kind of disappointed you with that.

Daniel: Actually, I'll challenge you here and we don't need the answer, but you reflecting that back to me, I realized that publishers have less control on Amazon as a platform in terms of promotions and things like that. We're not going to discuss it now just playing in a seed and modeling for the listener what this looks like if we did that type of stuff, like the 99 cent deal or whatever on the Corwin site because we could drive traffic there and offer incredible deals. Maybe we will, who knows?

Ariel: Yeah. We'll have to talk to our marketing unit about that.

Daniel: I'm pretty sure I know. It's all good. Cool. This has been fun so far. My next question is, what are you excited about when it comes to the book and what we've created?

Ariel: I looked at this a little bit earlier when I first started. I saw Corwin's list and the authors that I know and love them. All the authors that we have published for many years are incredible, but I also wanted to bring in a new generation of leaders and look for the voices and the people who are making a difference for the future. I felt you were absolutely one of those people. I really wanted to find someone who had a really novel approach and could offer something that wasn't a new version of the same old thing that other people were offering. Again, I felt like we have that in Mastermind. I saw very quickly as I was doing my research, that isolation is a huge issue. I saw very quickly that leader attrition is a huge issue.

Ariel: You and I have talked a lot about what shape the book would take. What problems is this book responding to leadership. Attrition is one of them. That rotating door of leaders coming in and getting burnt out and leaving again and moving on to the next thing or leaving the profession completely. I feel very passionately that with that problem, positive change is going to be very hard to accomplish. I wanted a book that proposed hopefully a solution to that. I felt like the Mastermind is gathering leaders together in a way that they get support and they find inspiration and motivation to do what's best for kids and to make hard choices if they need to deal with challenges like the pandemic. I don't see how you can thrive in an atmosphere, filled with all of the challenges that schools are filled with without a support group. When I saw a Mastermind and started to really understand what you were going after, I just felt so strongly. This is something that the world needs that education leaders absolutely need. So that made me really excited.

Daniel: You sat in on a Mastermind. What did you notice, if you could remember back then? It was a while ago.

Ariel: I remember being surprised by how open and vulnerable people were. Seeing how welcoming they were. I always just want to be kind of a fly on the wall, but there was nowhere for me to hide and the expectation of there's no hiding in the Mastermind, even if you're a guest. We went into like breakouts and I remember people were like, Ariel, "Tell us what tell us where you're doing and what your story is." Everyone was super welcoming. I could tell with the vulnerability and just the depth of discussion there was a level of trust that had been created and was operating for a while. When you entered into that space, there was almost like a sacredness about it, where it was like, "Okay, the expectation here is that you are going to be honest, you're going to be authentic. You're going to own up to whatever you need to own up to. We're going to challenge you in a loving way and we're all gonna make progress together. We're all committed to each other's progress."

Daniel: I love that reflection. You gave me goosebumps. Again talking about the book, what are you excited about? What are you most proud of that we've created? By the time of this podcast it is available? What are you most proud of?

Ariel: From my career standpoint editors, what makes editors proud is the people that they've gotten to work with and the voices that they've been able to help elevate. What I'm most proud of is just the fact that I got to work with you. It almost doesn't matter what the book was. It helps that the book, I think really is the right work at the right time, but I I've loved working with you. I know that our friendship and working relationship will continue and it'll evolve in the coming years. I'm most proud that I got to work with you and I brought you into the Corwin fold. That's feels like a big win for me, but then obviously I love the book itself. I also wanted to say the cover is one of my favorites. I remember you said, when we were talking about what should the cover look like. You were like "Tell the designer if they could design anything and it's like their favorite book they've ever worked on. Just do that." I told the designer exactly that and she was like, "Wow, no one's ever said that before."

Daniel: That's amazing to me and an obvious thing to tell a designer.

Ariel: A lot of authors come into it kind of feeling like they have an idea in their head of what they want and a lot of them are very committed to that vision. It was nice to have that much freedom.

Daniel: Interesting. Some behind the scenes stuff. If You remember when we started the project too, I paid my designer friend, Michael who's designed my podcast covers, the Mastermind logos, all the swag you can get at the BLBS store. He's my guy, he designed a cover. When we started working on the project because I got this from Michael Hyatt years ago. He created a mock up cover and he wrote on there "best seller." It was just part of his morning routine and visualization process, which is very positive. You need to visualize yourself being a success. Then you need to go do the work too. It's not just like thinking and dreaming about it, but that's on my screen and it still is.

Daniel: Every single day I see that I see that cover to motivate myself. Maybe the designer in Corwin internally looked at that and got some ideas, but I wanted them to unleash their creativity. A few questions ago, you were talking about it's full of surprises and challenging the status quo. I didn't know what to expect in this working relationship. My only concern was, Will it be too stiff? Will it become too vanilla", so to speak and that kind of stuff. I want to make an impact. I wanted the work to stand out. What's wild. Most of the requests, if not all that I floated out there, happened like you said. Usually you don't do footnotes, but we did them and there's a bunch and everything about it has been a pleasure working with you. My last question is essentially the Ruckus Maker who's listening right now, what's one thing you want them to really know about the book, prior to them going out and buying it?

Ariel: Yeah. Good question. I want Ruckus Makers to know that this is directly for them. A lot of school leadership books are for changing your school in some way. They're about helping your students, which this is, but this is really for you. This is for you as a school leader to become your best version of yourself and that's something that you don't see in a lot of school leadership books that are out there and I've read a ton of them. I've published dozen of them. I know that for a fact, this is not a message that you see in a lot of other places, but this is a book that is for your improvement your professional learning. You will be a better leader for experiencing this book. What I love too, is that this is a replicable system.

Ariel: This is something you can take the ideas from this book and start implementing them right away and we know that it works. There's proof of efficacy. You have so many anecdotes and stories. Anyone who wants to can listen to your podcast or look at your blog or hear so many stories of people who have been in the Mastermind and say, "We know this works. This is how my life has been changed." I love that we have so many of those stories all throughout the book. Again I don't think anyone who listens to this podcast will be surprised to hear, but there's tons of humor and fun challenges and even some prizes. I think there's some pizza waiting in store. There's some pizza for a lucky listener for a lucky reader. There's some fun stuff in store. I love that you have all that packed into one book that will be fun for leaders to read, and we know we'll make an actual impact.

Daniel: Brilliant. We're going to pause here just for a moment or a message from our sponsors. When we return, the roles will be reversed. The interviewer becomes the interviewee. If you want to hear Ariel asks me some juicy questions regarding the book, stick around. Learn how to successfully navigate change, shape your school's success in empower your teams with Harvard certificate in school management and leadership. Get online professional development that fits your schedule. Courses include leading change, leading schools, leading people and leading learning. Apply today at betterleadersbetterschools.com/Harvard. That's betterleadersbetterschools.com/Harvard. During COVID. Every teacher is a new teacher. That's why innovative school leaders are turning to Teach FX whose virtual PD is equipping thousands of teachers with the skills they need to create engaging, equitable, and rigorous virtual or blended classes. To learn more about Teach FX and get a special offer visit teachfx.com/BLBS. That's teachfx.com/BLBS.

Daniel: Today's show is brought to you by Organized Binder, Organized Binder develops the skills and habits. All students need for success. During these uncertain times of distance learning and hybrid education settings, Organized Binder, equips educators with a resource to provide stable and consistent learning routines so that all students have an opportunity to succeed. Whether at home or in the classroom, learn more@organizedbinder.com. We're back with, Ariel Curry, a friend and editor at Corwin, helping people design and create their own of books through book coaching. She's now going to ask me some questions regarding our latest project.

Ariel: Danny, I want to know, why did you want to write this book? It sounded like from what you said earlier, you hadn't really thought about a book around Mastermind until I pitched it to you, but what was your thought there?

Daniel: You're absolutely right. The cheeky answer is why'd I write it? Because you asked. Listen, I actually never thought about writing a book, regarding the Mastermind because I couldn't get out of my head how do I do that in a way that is super valuable in of service to a Ruckus Makers versus, "Hey, here's the thing. It does cost money." At least if you work with me the roadmap is a whole bunch of really cool ideas that work. There was another book I was working on that was more about productivity focus type of deal. I actually didn't have this idea, but when you said it, it made a lot of sense. It rose to the top of the list of what I should do.

Daniel: I want to take on the challenge and figure it out because if we figure it out and create something of massive value, what next? What changes? I got from the Infinite Game from Simon Sineck, this idea of a "just cause." It's this really ambitious vision that actually probably will never be achieved. The just cause that I wrote down is to connect, grow and mentor every single school leader who wants to level up. Obviously I can't work with every school leader, but if I partner with you and do this podcast it's a way to make the just cause happen. If I point people to Jethro Jones or Wil Parker and Jen David Lang, they actually all have Masterminds, too. My motto, everybody wins when a leader gets better.

Daniel: Everybody wins when you get better. That's why I wanted to put these ideas out there. It's a high level. You can practically apply it and change your environment immediately. Some people might start Masterminds, level up the professional development that they offer within their schools. They might use it as a lens to evaluate opportunities. They would enroll themselves in and then a few of them might end up working with me too, and that's going to be really cool. That's why I said yes,

Ariel: I love it. I feel like I should ask how was it working with me since you asked me that question?

Daniel: It was a super enjoyable experience. I do consider you a friend and I've really enjoyed our time together. Your expertise and understanding is what makes a solid book and how I like the process of creating and that kind of thing. The first time I hired experts, I had professionals, but this is a different, this was a different flavor and experience. I learned so much. Being able to tap into your wisdom, get candid feedback, like when you told me my organization sucks. Remember that. I love that story so much, but you didn't say that, but that's what I heard. That challenge had me walk away from the book and really think about what makes the Mastermind a special thing.

Daniel: You talked about the sacredness. People that are super interested and welcoming.They're vulnerable and they let it all hang out and ask for help. How do we do that? For me, it's like riding a bike, it just happens. It's because of who I am and how I was created. To be able to communicate to others, "You gotta be better than that." We came up with a framework, The ABC of powerful, professional development and then that became the structure, the book, and it just works. Right. And that's why the Mastermind works. When you have integrated into your, experience, more authenticity, belonging, and challenge. It leads to life and leadership transformation. I think that's going to be a remarkable idea that spreads by word of mouth. I don't know that we would have arrived at it if you didn't challenge me. So, thank you.

Ariel: Absolutely. That's a big part of how I see my job as an editor. To look for the places where something might be weak and where people could poke holes in it. I want to make sure that it's strong. I want to make sure that you've got the absolute best best book that you can. I think we have that now. It was also really gratifying for me to see you take on that challenge and say, "Okay, I'm going to figure this out. I can figure this out" and you did like that. I might've been the instigator and I might've given you that challenge, but you rose up to meet it and you actually took on that challenge, did the work and you found the solution. So that was really exciting for me to see you grow in that way as an author. When I'm doing my best work as an editor, is in making you shine as the author.

Daniel: You helped me level up as well in terms of just research because quite honestly, I could care less. It's not interesting to me and that's not how I teach. I teach through story. I'm also in, now that you're doing your own thing too, you should check out everybody listening too, but I'm giving you just a little, little seed plant here. Dan Sullivan at strategic coach is a great mind when it comes to business, but also leadership. He keeps talking about how we're in the results business. You can trade time for four money and that kind of stuff or you could play a different game and say, "I'm going to create results" as a strength because it works.

Daniel: For some people they do want it grounded in research and why does it work? And that was hard and a new skill for me as well. I think we pulled it off and I'm grateful that we did that because now I actually have a better understanding of why some things work as well or the seriousness of like the problem. Through our research, found out in 2020, AASP, in the learning policy Institute, for example, surveyed a whole bunch of hundreds and hundreds of school leaders, they found out, listen to this, one out of ever four school leaders basically had access to a mentor or coach just once in the last two years. How are you going to improve schools if they don't have coaching and mentors and this kind of stuff? The majority of people don't and that is tragic. Putting those things out there and having people think about that. Not adding anything to that just subjective data on its own. It really makes you think. Obviously, that's why we're where we're at and why the Mastermind is so important.

Ariel: I think that is exactly why this book appealed so much to like ASA the association of school superintendents is co-publishing the book. I know you've announced that before and it's really, really exciting. I think that is exactly what appealed to them about your book was the fact that it does address that problem. You looked into the research and really wrestled with what was going on. I think that depth is what a lot of leaders really need.

Daniel: You mentioned retention and attrition rates and I don't have this stat memorize, but I do remember in Texas they can do what they want. I mean, this Texas, that's how they roll, but they surveyed, literally all their principals and they found when principals leave their school, they're actually not going to another school. The majority of them are out out for good. That also is a big problem. When you're talking about AASA, we have a potential solution that is a high quality, professional development experience. For savvy districts that want to keep their people engaged, challenge growing and keep them around as well. Mastermind is a really awesome opportunity.

Ariel: Yes, definitely. Danny, my last question, I wouldn't be a good acquisitions editor if I didn't ask this, what are you thinking about for your next book?

Daniel: It's funny that you mentioned it. I know this will release in a month, but I actually have a call scheduled with, Glenn Robbins. A superintendent in New Jersey. We are both huge fans of stoic philosophy and I don't know, you would know better than me, but has there been a book written targeting school leaders and how they might apply stoic thinking into their craft? I don't know if we'll be able to pull it off or not. I don't think Glenn's written a book yet, but he's super smart and just awesome guy. It would be fun to collaborate with. It might be that potentially.

Ariel: I love that. As far as I know that hasn't been done either, I've thought about it before and didn't really have the right authors or kind of the right time opportunity, to pursue that further. I think it's a great idea. Let's talk more about that.

Daniel: I've always wanted to do poetry, that's more of a risk. I'm certainly more creative so I don't know what that might look like to do for school leaders. Like a collection of poems to encourage them and to have them reflect. I've always been into comics. My first job was at a comic bookstore?

Ariel: No, I didn't know.

Daniel: Dutchies Comic Book shop in Palatine, Illinois, Chuck Ferman was the owner. I used to go there every single day, every day, literally every day after I did my homework I went there. I probably really, really annoyed Chuck and since I was there every single day, starting in fourth, or certainly sixth grade, I think maybe sixth grade. I would be in there looking at comics, baseball cards, et cetera. He's like, dude, do you just want to work here? You're here every day. What if you counted inventory? I would count how many Spider-Man and Superman tell him and then he could predict how many comic books to buy for three months out. He pay me $20. He'd pay me in pizza so that's why pizza's in the book. He would let me go home with as many comics as I could read and what a treat. He taught me about life. He taught me about blues and great music. He brought me to my first concert. My mom asked him to and it was Aerosmith, eat the rich, can you believe that?

Ariel: What a great concert, that's an epic first concert.

Daniel: It was pretty epic. I share that story because I don't know if there's a way to figure out some sort of like graphic novel or comic type of thing. That would be fun. Maybe it's combined with the stokic idea. Maybe not. I don't know. My last idea, I've always wanted to do some sort of fictional tale like how Lencioni does his stuff, but that these are all creative risks. I don't ever want to do like the same thing again. I want to do different. Those are the books in my mind right now. Okay.

Ariel: Awesome. I'd be super curious to hear from listeners which of those ideas they like best and what direction they think would be most helpful. That would be really cool feedback to get.

Daniel: If you have an idea and you've listened to this and you heard about those book ideas that I have, email me Daniel@betterleadersbetterschools.com and tell me which book you want me to potentially create next. Before we go, Ariel, you're helping people with book coaching. Congrats going out on your own. I love that so much. Can you tell us a little bit about how you serve and where can people find more info about?

Ariel: Definitely. I love Corwin and I loved being there for eight and a half years, but I really wanted to be able to help more people write books. A publisher has so many inherent limitations because it is a business. I wanted to be able to say yes to working with more amazing authors and people. You can find more information on my website. It's Arielcurry.com. I have a weekly newsletter that I send out supporting authors and helping hopefully to inspire writers, to actually go forth and write that book that you've always wanted to write. So that's what I'm doing now and I absolutely love it.

Daniel: Awesome. Ruckus Maker, if you've ever wanted to write a book, but you don't know where to start, Ariel is your person. Check her out at arielcurry.com. It'll be linked up for you in the show notes so you can just click and head over there. Last but not least buy the book, Mastermind: Unlocking talent within every school leader. It's available everywhere you can get books. If you go to the Corwin website, summer 21, I think I know the code's still good. Now, do if it's working when the book releases?

Ariel: I don't know. I think it actually ends the end of August.

Daniel: Okay. Sorry. Suckers. No, no more.

Ariel: There's always a new one. By the time this comes out, we'll make sure you have it in the show notes.

Daniel: Whatever the code is we commit we'll have it in the show notes and that'll get you a nice little discount and probably a free shipping, maybe pizza you never ever know. The last thing I want to say, I actually, two last things. One, if you'd like to taste it before you invest in the entire entire book, you could go to betterleadersbetterschools.com/free chapter and download a sample, introductory chapter. Thank you for listening. Thank you for leading and we love you because you're a Ruckus Makers. Bye for now.

Daniel: Thanks for listening to the better leaders, better schools podcast for Ruckus Maker. If you have a question or would like to connect my email, Daniel@betterleadersbetterschools.com or hit me up on Twitter @alienearbud. If the better leaders better schools, podcast is helping you grow as a school leader, then please help us serve more Ruckus Makers like you. You can subscribe, leave an honest rating and review or share on social media with your biggest takeaway. From the episode, extra credit for tagging me on Twitter at alien earbud and using the #BLBS the level up your leadership at better leaders, better schools.com and talk to you next time until then class dismissed.