Dr. ABC: Creating belonging and championing equity in school

Daniel: So let's say you had the choice as a teacher to take on any class in the building. Who do you pick? Is it the gifted students or quote unquote, gifted? Is it the honors students or your regular students? Is it students who are in some sort of remedial program or need a little bit more support? Who would you pick? Be honest, but today's guest Dr. ABC had a similar opportunity. He picked the most difficult kids to work with and teach them reading. At first it was hard, but then the kids started to soar and you want to know why? Because they were seen and heard. Most importantly, it felt like they were somewhere they belonged. That's where we begin today's conversation on how to create belonging, but we dig into equity and inclusiveness. Dr. ABC ends the show talking about the power. I want to note that here because it's important to me. Leaders forget about the power they have and play small at times. One of my coaching mantras that I say to myself as I serve others, either one-on-one or through the Mastermind is "I help powerful people remember how powerful they are." A coach taught that to me and I take it. I received that, and I hope maybe it will help you too. Hey, it's Daniel, and welcome to the Better Leaders Better Schools Podcast. A show for Ruckus Makers, those out of the box thinkers making change happen in education. We'll be right back after a message from our show sponsors.

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Daniel: All students an opportunity to succeed with Organized Binder, who equips educators with a resource to provide stable and consistent learning. Whether that's in a distance hybrid or traditional educational setting, learn more@organizedbinder.com. Hello, Ruckus Makers. Today I'm joined by Dr. Andrew B. Campbell, otherwise known as Dr. ABC, who is a graduate from the University of Toronto with a PhD in ed leadership policy and diversity. He is presently a faculty member in the master of teaching program at the University of Toronto and an adjunct assistant professor at Queens University Online. He is an Ontario certified teacher and has been an educator for over 25 years in Jamaica, The Bahamas and Canada. Welcome to the show Dr. ABC.

Dr ABC: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Daniel: You bet. I want to open up with a, with a story where you identified yourself as a Ruckus Maker. You were starting your work in equity, and, uh, there was a principal who wanted to take a leap and she trusted you and, and gave you the space to make that happen. So let's start there.

Dr ABC: Oh, thank you so much. That memory, it is along ago, right before we started using these amazing labels and titles, equity specialists, advocate, activates, accomplish all these terminologies. I think ruckus is so appropriate because you're doing something that is not the norm and you're going to get pushed back. You should be expecting pushback because it's not the regular scheduled program, so to speak. I'm going to take you way back. I'm going to kind of ease myself a bit. This was like I just left to teacher's college, 1995. I went back to the community where I grew up in a school, I grew up in a community. Waterford Primary to be exact in Jamaica.

Dr ABC: I remember the big school, very big school. Because I was a pre-trained teacher, the school, the principal knew me. She said "I was excited."You are not a trained teacher. You could have any class you want. In those days we stream kids. We stream kids and you had six levels of streaming in a school from class, A class B class C class D, it's that ridiculous. I say ridiculous now because that time you didn't understand how ridiculous that was. Every teacher wants to be an A class teacher. You want the bright kids so you could make magic. As a young teacher, I realized that having the brightest quote, unquote kids was not really the magic.

Dr ABC: The magic was, "How do I get the ones who are not the best quote, unquote kids in the school to do great." I went to my principal and I said to her, "I would like to start a reading class for the kids who can't read, not just the ones who are in the D class or the B stream or the C steam, but for all the kids in the school who cannot read." I've been teaching those kids and I know they come in and they can't read. I want it to be a class where they spend time with me and I teach them how to read. There was no big spec program at the school at that time. There was no kind of fancy program. It was just a reading room and she said, "yes."

Dr ABC: She said, "Let's do it. Let's take a chance." I got a classroom. It was wild. It was an empty old economics class where it was closed down. Lots of stoves, fridges, and other appliances that didn't work anymore, closed up. I cleaned the class myself. I became the janitor. I became a carpenter. I got my friends to help me fix it. I had to take down the the sink and the cupboard because we want to look like a class. Not a cook or an economics room. I could tell you when we started it and I selected the kids to come in the room. Everybody was afraid and ashamed because now you have to go to what we call back in Jamaica, "the dunce room."

Dr ABC: You're going to the dunce room. That's why I understand that teachers are magicians. I say that teaching is more than content. It's about creating a space that students want to be at. In less than two, three weeks, that room was seen as "What's happening over there." What's the ruckus happening over there. The ruckus was, there were kids learning who did not feel they belong in any other classroom. The Mr. Campbell reading room. At the time, it wasn't just Mr. Campbell's, but Mr. Campbell's reading room became the room. We had parents coming to the school asking for their kids to go to reading who didn't need to read. It also became, I want to really add this. It became a space for everyone. This was where the teachers want to have a lunch. I remember fondly how many meetings were added in the reading room because I made it home. It's important that you understand the power of advocacy and belonging in our schools. Yeah. That's one of my first ruckus making situations.

Daniel: Dr. ABC. And I want to follow up with that idea of belonging, but just to point out too, and to honor that you raise your hand and you worked with kids who sometimes are overlooked within schools. You saw their potential and like you said, you were, you were cleaning, you were the carpenter, you made it a nice space so kids could feel good about being there. You ended with this idea of belonging, and I'd like to dig into that. There were a few things that you did there expertly to create belonging, but talk some more to us about how to set up spaces that are belonging and welcoming to our students and staff.

Dr ABC: What I want to share, especially speaking to educational leaders, I really want to before I even get into outer space because I'm going to give you one of my favorite ideas. I don't want to overload with too many check boxes and to-do lists, but it is dual. Educational leaders have the moral courage to create belonging in our schools and I think that is lacking in a lot of our schools. We don't have leaders who have the moral courage, because guess what, if you're going to create something different, create belonging for people who the system is not created for. You're going to have pushback. A lot of educational leaders need to understand that when they get pushed back, that's not true. You are creating space for people who the institution did not create space for.

Dr ABC: Remember our schools are institutions. Many schools are oppressive space. Lets be very frank about that. They are spaces made for the dominant. They are not made for all students and that is why we keep having big, beautiful buildings that a little wood ramp attached to some staircase because it wasn't made for you. If it was made for you, the ramp would have been made different. It was an afterthought. Belonging cannot be an afterthought. Belonging must be the center of creating the school. So for me, it's one of the essential thing of belonging is in ensure that you see your students. Because belong to who?. As an educator, as a principal, as an educational leader, as a Ruckus Maker, you're thinking about how do you create belonging. Always go to the users of the space.

Dr ABC: It's not about what the principal feels should be belonging. It's what the students feel. A simple thing like you want to put a mural on a school wall. I know the principal, like me, if I were going to put a mural on a school wall, it's guaranteed it goes to be something that I like because I like big, beautiful, bold colors. I like powerful woman on my paintings. I didn't even realize that my house, the paintings that I have were powerful woman until someone pointed out to me, "Do you realize you have a lot of powerful female energy and whatever on your art." I was like, I didn't even think of that. So that would be what I would create. If I'm creating a newer first school, maybe that's not what the students want. The belonging is they're going pass it. These 500 students are going to pass this mural on the school wall everyday. Maybe you want to ask them, "What is it that they want in the mural" so it becomes their mural and not Mr. Campbell or Dr. ABC's mural. it's them. We need to really speak to the users of the space when we talk about creating belonging.

Daniel: The mural is a great, uh, illustration of how to do that belonging. I'll share with the Ruckus Maker, listening, just go ahead and Google, uh, Empathy Map, and it should come up. I found it in a book called Business Model Generation. It's design thinking, it's empathy and it's considering who you're making the mural for. Who you making the podcast for? Whatever what's going through their mind. What are the things they say to themselves? What are the challenges they face? What keeps them up at night? There's a whole lot more to dig into. Again, because the show is not for me when I started it was because I wanted to grow my leadership, but then it evolved and this show is now a gift for others. The mural is for others too, and I hear my puppy crying so I'm going to go get her, but I'm going to ask you a question while I'm listening and the Ruckus Maker's listening. Have you seen belonging done in some specific ways that really blew you away? Visiting a school that you've spoken at or maybe through your research where you're like wow. Like this is some amazing stuff. If you do have an example, we'd love to hear it.

Dr ABC: Yeah. I've seen a lot. I've seen enough. I've seen quite a bit. I shouldn't say I've seen enough because I've not seen enough examples, but I've seen enough for my eyes to be filled with joy. Lets talk about art again, I've seen schools where the art is just a beautiful representation of this population of the school. I've seen the opposite. Where the school is full of black and brown kids and the art on the walls are filled with pictures of old white dead people. I say that in a very profound way, because sometimes we have to understand that, yes, we need just institutionalized history and symbol and symbolism but also we have to think about, as you said back again to the empathy map, the user of the space. I've seen schools where the production, the song, the music, even how the Anthem is played.

Dr ABC: I have gone to a school where I tell you something. I've never heard the Jamaica Anthem. Funny enough, weird enough. I have never heard it and I'm from Jamaica. For the users who don't know I'm originally from Jamaica, I've never heard the Jamaican anthem reggae format. Before I left Jamaica. Dance hall and reggae format, I know there's a lot because I grew up on that. I just thought about, I didn't hear it play in a school. In a school! I went into Toronto in a school in a predominantly black neighborhood and they were playing the Canadian Anthem in a reggae beat. Come on. Now you think that anthem wasn't change. It still the Canadian Anthem, but now it's in reggae beat. I've gone to another school. The Canada Anthem played in a Latin beat and people are doing that.

Dr ABC: Now the kids are singing the Canadian Anthem, but they're singing to the regaee beat. It's about letting people feel that they belong there. It's about letting students feel that they belong there. I've seen that, but another good example would be, let's take it to the curricula. Let's take it to the point we use in our schools. I remember at grade five class I went to and the teacher and students, white teacher want to make (inaudible). I like to use color because color is important. I want you to see color. The idea that I don't see color is of course is ridiculous. We don't use that. I want you to see color. I said this person is indigenous. It's important. It's a part of who we are. I walk into the school and this white teacher in charge of the class had a really mixed class, like just a mixed bag of kids, amazing from all over.

Dr ABC: She had the the flags of different countries that students are apart of. I know many person listening will say, "Oh, we have done it. We have seen that." Here is what she did that wasn't just what she did. That's very good. It's cute. I love the ones when we do the cute things of equity. She went beyond just cute. She's having an entire poetry collection as she's teaching poetry. I've done it, a poetry unit and she found points from all the different countries the kids were from. There was a poem from Malaysia, an Indian poem, a poem from Jamaica, poem from Saint Grendy, a poem from St. Kitts and Nevis, a poem from Morocco, and a poem from Nigeria. He had all of these poems. What she did Danny, to extend it. She said to the kids, you will bring in your poems and the parents got involved and said, "I will come to school and spend five minutes to read the poem with my accent, with my Nigerian accent." Oh, I got chills thinking about it. Amazing. The kids knew they were learning grammar. They were learning language. They were learning the Canadian curricula, but their identity was right there.

Daniel: Yeah, it was right there embedded into it too. I'm glad you brought the poetry example. I was gonna throw that out there. I didn't know you were going that way, but that's a beautiful thing that you have this sheet of paper and this story, this way that the poet is trying to communicate with you. If you embed your personality, your culture, your background into it, it's wonderful and beautiful to see how the poem changes, but still stays the same at the same time. The, uh flags, food, that kind of stuff. That's like 1% that's like that's basic. Bringing in other stuff that's a really great example that you shared there. I'd love to ask you about drop the mic moments because you, you shared this with me and to be honest, this is a new idea. I've never heard. I'm sure the Ruckus Maker listening when they say drop the mic. There's a, there's a specific type of way that we think about that. But you have a different thing and it's refreshing. Why don't you drop the mic by talking about dropping the mic?

Dr ABC: Right. So for me, people talk about pass the mic or people talking about drop the mic is a moment where, whatever, whatever, whatever. For me, because I'm always thinking about equity at the center of the conversation. I think about the person's who get to keep the mic. The people get to hold the mic, the people who get to always have the mic in their hand. Many times it's the dominant voice so I keep hearing the dominant voice. We love talking about allyship a lot. A lot of the allies we talk about can be very performative because we want to defend and share the space and do all that kind of stuff but we still want to be the one in charge. I think a part of great leadership is how you share leadership.

Dr ABC: I believe in shared leadership, key management. I think a lot of principals are sometimes intimidated when there are strong people on the team because they feel like, "Oh, you're going to take over the school." No, you are still a principal. You are still a principal. So for me, I always think about give somebody as the mic. Give somebody else the mic that's one way I think about dropping the mic is so somebody else could take it. Somebody else I know use the word, passed the mic. I've heard that. But I believe in dropping the mic in such a way, as somebody has to realize they can take that up and run with it. It's almost like it's like a Baton, but it's still a way that you leave it and allow that person to take it from a space to wherever they want to take it. And that's an important for the work we do. I

Daniel: s there a way you can encourage or facilitate that?

Dr ABC: It's a process. It's a journey. Maybe this is where I bring in the idea of, we have to really recognize you're at different parts of the journey. Since 2021 came in, every conversation I've had with a superintendent or an organization who's looking for a speaker or a workshop. I think since January 2021, no joke, people have been way more honest about where they're at with equity than ever before. I don't know what happened last year they were on the equity tree and they were wanting to learn. Now people are saying, "What I realized since George Floyd's death, we were all engaged in doing stuff. But like you said, Dr. Campbell, a lot of us did the one black talk or we did the one little thing. Now we're at a place where we realize that it's not enough." Of course it's not enough. Now they are saying "Where can we go? Where can we do?" For me, it's about recognizing where you are on the journey, but allowing people that space still to walk their journey and give them the voice, the mic, so to speak so they can take it on their journey and speak up and speak out about issues of equity, diversity inclusion.

Daniel: Dr. ABC talking, equity inclusion. This kind of topic is really near and dear to my heart. We're going to continue the conversation on the other side, but right now we're going to pause here for a message from our sponsors. Transform how you lead to become a resilient and empowered change agent with Harvard's online certificate in school management and leadership. Grow your professional network with a global cohort of fellow school leaders. As you collaborate in case studies bridging the fields of education in business apply today at hgse.me/leader. That's hgse.me/leader.

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Daniel: We're back with Dr. ABC and we were talking, uh, equity and drop the mic moments that actually facilitate somebody picking them back up. He touched on the murder of George Floyd, which really was a wake up call for many around the world. Definitely a tragedy but at least a lot of people are cognizant and aware of the injustice that exists. I'd like to suggest a couple of resources myself. I want to ask you if you have some and I highly encourage the Ruckus Maker listening to contact Dr. ABC. We'll talk more about that at the end of the show maybe bring him in. I encourage you to bring them in to speak. But for me after that this has always been an issue that's a bit important, but we really turned up the dial.

Daniel: Traditionally we always read what I call quote, unquote, leadership texts, but from outside of education within the Mastermind. But then I said, "Okay, we really need to tackle this issue. We looked at Kenndi, How to be Anti-racist. For the next year we're going to be reading Cast and we're reading Phe person You Mean to be, so those are two books, two resources I can suggest. Dr. ABC, is there a resource or book or something that you've come across. That's just amazing that you'd like to tell Ruckus Makers.

Dr ABC: I'm not gonna say one book. I've read a couple books, but I'm not going to say one, but what I'm going to say instead, I'm going to say, read books from the voices you want to learn from. What do I mean by that? Well, you want to learn about LGBTQ people read books written by LGBTQ people in. We are so good at reading books written about people. I want us to learn how to read books written by the people who they are talking about themselves. For me I was asked the honest, I was asked the question a couple months ago, something similar to this by a school board superintendent. We're having a conversation in a podcast, something like this, we are seen as whose knowledge is powerful, whose knowledge is valuable. For me, I want to read books that are written by if I'm going to do it about LGBTQ.

Dr ABC: I want to read a book written by somebody who's LGBTQ, because you find professors who do that. It's very distilled. It's very academic. If we do not get to connect, I want my readers to connect with me. I am very big on this, and maybe that's why I have such a pull or an influence in my workshops. I do get quite a bit an offer because I speak as a teacher. I am a doctor. I have a PhD from the top of university in Canada, but speaking to teachers, I am also a classroom teacher. My stories are from kindergarten. They are from what happened in the cafeteria. They are from what happened in the playground. I could give you 10 back stories. I could give you stories about the hallway, about the passage way, about the bus, about a field trip, about a camp.

Dr ABC: I can tell you stories from my lived experiences because I am living the experience. For me, I would encourage your readers to also when they get to buy books, they want to learn about black authors get the books, buy the book, purchase the book about those artists. I use the word purchase in a very significant way, because a lot of our persons are not supported. A lot of artists are not supported and so we want to make sure we get that support in. You'd be surprised the way you can support many writers is by purchasing their work. We know that right, and get them to use their work. I'll close with saying, this is important to me. I get quite a bit of offers to speak during black history month.

Dr ABC: I would tell people, I remind people, I am not just black in Black History Monty, I'm black all the time, but also my work is not a black speaker. I am not your black speaker. I say that to people. Even your listeners will be listening to me and say "Oh, I must get them for black history month." Yeah, you can try. Maybe there has to be a no space in my calendar, but I'm not your black speaker. I am your every day, 365 days a year speaker because my PhD is in leadership policy and equity. So that's it. Absolutely. That would be my thing there.

Daniel: I love it. You're obviously a great storyteller and I think that is a pedagogical approach. Can you tell me is that a purposeful move or something that's just natural to you in terms of influence and teaching through story?

Dr ABC: Storytelling? Yes. Storytelling for me is natural. I grew up in stories and there's something that's said about young people who grew up around old people. I grew up listening to old people, telling stories. You know you can't tell a story like an old person. The way that they tell a story that they can transport you. I learned that from my grandmother and she would show you how the person lived. My grandmother would tell me about someone bringing coffee on their head, a woman bringing coffee, a basket of coffee to the coffee house. She will describe that person, "stop in the middle of the street with her hands." You could see, you could feel, you could even smell the coffee in the story. And so it's an art and I cherish that because I learned it from my grandmother and people around, but also in anything you do, Danny, you have to also work on sharpening your skills. Over the years, that's a part of what I do.

Daniel: You do it well? We love it. Thank you. Let's talk about school marquees. If you could put a message on all school marquees from around the world, what would you put on that school marquee?

Dr ABC: It would be, "you belong here" that's on the school marquees. You belong here. Why? Because belonging is important. Students need to know they belong and they are not intruders in the building and they belong in the curricula and in everything we do we are going to talk about belonging. Because our students don't belong, our students disengage. I want them to know you belong here, come just as you are. You belong here.

Daniel: Great messages to have I tell the leaders I support too, is we picked you to be you. Don't try to be anybody else. I think it's sort of a similar message. Thank you. If you build a school from the ground up Dr. ABC, and you're not limited by any resources, your only limitation is your imagination. How would you build your dream school and what would be your top three priorities?

Dr ABC: I want to spend time on my priorities. I was thinking about it. It would be a big school. You just say it would be a monstrosity of a school. Why is it a big school? I want to create space. I want to create space for all our students. I want to create really on Orthodox space. I want, and this may sound weird or surprising to people, but I don't want the school pool. Maybe two school pools. But I don't want a school pool to look like just the old Olympic lane pool. I want that maybe on the West wing, the regular quote unquote school pool.

Dr ABC: But on the next side of the school, the East wing, we want to pool that looks like we took a river. I'm going to be selfish. I want a pool thay looks like a river, a pool that as maybe fake or not fake real rocks. I pool that as a blue, a blue hole where our kids could dive off into a pool that has that natural water fake waterfall. We will build a waterfall. I want to pool that says, "come, come, come, swim, come for a swim in it." So that's why I want so much space. Okay. But my three priorities in the school would be people. The first priority would be the employee. When I'm thinking of the school, I'm thinking of the employee. When I'm designing this school, I'm thinking of the employee who will work here, who qualifies to work here.

Dr ABC: Who qualifies to work here at the Dr. ABC Institute for Black Excellence. That's the name of the school by the way, Dr. ABC Institute for Black Excellence, who is qualified to work here. I know it's not just black people because I wanted school to be at a big inclusive space who is qualified to work here and that's the first one I want to do. I want people who see my students and people who believe in our students, and then the next priority is the community. I need the community to collect to the students. I'm thinking of the politicians. I'm thinking of the churches, the mosques, the nonprofit, all of that the reason why, because I want them to use the school. When I designed a school, I designed a school in mind that the community will use the school.

Dr ABC: I want to come in to use the gym on a regular Friday evening. The school is popping because there's some group using the gym for basketball, or for some dads competition that outside of the theater is going to be used. There's some singer. I'm going to be a little bit selfish again. Maybe that maybe we're using our school for somebody like Patti LaBelle, because a big school remember is a big theater. It's Patti LaBelle in concert at our school grounds. What I'm saying? Come on now. All right, I'll see she's using. The Harleem Black Dancers are using our theater wherever school is at. So that's what I want. I want a school with a community, gets to come into the school as something, as simply as parents who don't have space to keep a party and they want to keep a party for their kids.

Dr ABC: You can use our school space free of cost, because remember now the politicians are invested in our school. The project you vote for have given us money and you can come to our school and I'll keep that barbecue in our school backyard. Oh, come on now. The last thing I want in my priority is our students. The people that the staff who's going to work there, the community's going to use a school at our students. I want them to come from far and near. I want them to come black, Latin x and mix. I wanted to come confused about their identity. They're not sure who they are. I want my school to be a school where you can transition in my school. You came in grade seven, grade two grade three and your name was Andrea because you identify as male and some old school is amazing.

Dr ABC: You get to find out who you are, or you struggle with your identity. You get to realize that I identify more as female so you transition and we're fine. We're good. We're good. Give us your new name and let us call you by your new name. I'm ready to find that I want it to be a fabulous school. We're coming to your wheelchair. As a matter of fact, our school come with your big dazzle wheelchair, put the others, put out put the car with your wheelchair because it's not a piece of wood ramp. Our school. I was calling Danny with a piece of wooden afterthought ramp. Our school is built with a fabulous ramp. As a matter of fact, you could put three, four persons side by side on the wheelchair. When to come up in the school, we don't need to be coming in a line behind each other because there's enough space for all the reach here, because it's, it was made for you.

Dr ABC: I want kids to come with a big dreams and be a big ideas. I want my little black girls to say, "I want to go to to that school because I want to be a scientist. Actually come into that school, she knows you could be a scientist because they're thinking that school says to them, you could be a black scientist because we got to work with you. We're ready for you. So that's my skill. I'm excited. I'm bursting with excitement beause I feel like, I feel like I could really have a school like that.

Daniel: You feel it, I feel it, Dr. ABC. We tell those girls too, you could be, you could be vice president. You can be president. I love that, that big vision. That's wonderful. Dr. ABC, thank you so much for being a part of the better leaders, better schools, podcast of all the things we talked about today, what's the one thing you want a Ruckus Maker to remember.

Dr ABC: I want Ruckus Makers to remember you have the power, you have the power to create change. You do have the power. A lot of times we forget. We do have the power. When I speak to people, you have the power I'm telling you right now as a black gay immigrant from very humble backgrounds in Jamaica. Living in Canada, I am sometimes happy to realize that the power that I have. I'm a part of a community where many are powerless, but I do have a powerful title. I do have a powerful position where I work and I use it. I have the power of financial stability. I use it.I have a part of a big voice and I have used it. Use whatever power you have. Some of you. I would say this Danny, many of you don't realize you have power of a signature. Some of your signatures are so good and important with one signature, something could happen. Use their signature, use your power, use your title to make change, to create a ruckus. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the better, better schools podcasts

Daniel: For Ruckus Maker. If you have a question or would like to connect my email, Daniel F better leaders, better schools.com or hit me up on Twitter at alien earbud. If the better leaders better schools, podcast is helping you grow as a school leader, then please help us serve more Ruckus Makers like you. You can subscribe, leave an honest rating and review or share on social media with your biggest takeaway. From the episode, extra credit for tagging me on Twitter at alien earbud and using the hashtag B L B S level up your leadership at better leaders, better schools.com and talk to you next time until then class dismissed.

Daniel: [inaudible].